Unlocking Potential: The Importance of Executive Functioning and Social/Emotional Learning

 

Transcript

ANNOUNCER:  This is Curious Incident, a podcast for special needs families, and your window into the world of special education. Special needs parenting can be challenging, and we want to make it easier by providing you with the resources you need to help your child. Dive deep into the world of learning differently with your host, special education attorney Adam Dayan.

ADAM:  I’m excited to present my next guest on the Curious Incident podcast, Randall Klein. Randall is an education strategist specializing in curriculum development, innovative pedagogy and holistic coaching to improve student outcomes. A skilled coach and speaker, she leads sessions on learning differences, maximizing student engagement, and integrating executive functioning into classroom instruction, providing actionable strategies to improve the student experience. Randall, it’s great to have you here.

RANDALL:  It’s so great to be here. Thank you for that lovely introduction.

ADAM:  Of course, it’s a great background you have.

RANDALL:  Yeah, I’m super excited to be here.

ADAM:  Amazing. So let’s dive in. Can you tell us a bit about your background and your role as director of educational services at PALS, which stands for Pediatric Assessment and Learning Support?

RANDALL:  I started working with middle and high school students, and I was in the classroom for about a decade. And then I had the opportunity to leave the public school setting and go into the admin world as a private school administrator. So I’ve kind of seen both sides of being in the classroom as a teacher and being an administrator as well. And it was through that that I had the opportunity to get trained in some of the, I would say less classic things that you guys are teachers, such as executive functioning and social emotional learning. And I fell in love and I thought, wow, this is something that I wish I knew more about when I was teaching. And I feel like teachers, parents, I’m really students should know more about. So I had the opportunity to kind of use those skills and bring it into PALS. And now I get to oversee program and development so that we’re thinking about this whole child approach, thinking about how they learn from an executive functioning standpoint, social emotional learning, and also not make it just about the academics, which I think in large part is what we think about when we think about students and the learning process.

ADAM:  How would you describe your philosophy when it comes to supporting children who learn differently?

RANDALL:  So that’s a great question. So I kind of think of it in three categories, if you will. So I think the first thing is that I always think every student can succeed when given the right tools, time, and trust, I almost say like the three T’s, if you will. So if they’re given the right tools to be successful and understand how they learn, then I think every student can thrive. Given the right time is important because we all take a different process in order to really understand what we’re learning and then express what we’re learning. And then trust is big and it’s twofold. It’s students trusting themselves to want to learn new things and then also trusting those that are teaching them to understand how they learn. So that’s a big piece of it. The other thing I think about is this, I mentioned earlier, this whole child approach. So it’s really about it’s not just about academics. It’s thinking about the developmental continuum and thinking how students show up socially, how are they doing emotionally and really understanding that how they learn is key to helping them feel successful. And then the other thing I think about is the importance of students feeling empowered and understanding how they learn best. So its parents, educators will always be responsible for teaching. But if a student is relying on that, it’s going to be really hard for them to transfer how they learn outside the classroom, which ultimately is the goal and education. So really just thinking of the whole child and giving them the tools they need to be successful.

ADAM:  I just wanted to underscore what you said about trust. I was talking to a client yesterday who said that her daughter is really struggling in the school where she is and she doesn’t feel like her teachers understand her. So this is a huge component to believe that the people who are educating you as a child know your strengths and weaknesses and can educate you properly. And the other piece of the trust component, trusting yourself and understanding how you learn best, what are your strengths and weaknesses, how can you manage your own challenges? That’s all huge.

RANDALL:  Right. Yes, I’m happy you said that because I think that what I talk about often when understanding students learning differences is there’s a I think misunderstanding because we only often see the behavior. And especially as you know, it’s apparent, but also as a teacher, we see the behaviors and we don’t often recognize that behaviors are just a means of communication and really are underlining potentially a lagging skill. And so just for an example, I’m thinking of, you know, what you just said with that student in the classroom as a teacher. And again, I taught for well over a decade. If I didn’t know better and I saw students with their head down and you know, I might say, Oh my God, they’re, they’re being rude or they’re being lazy or I see papers all over and I say, Oh my God, they’re, they’re super disorganized. They don’t really care or they’re just doodling. And I think they’re just being messy or why are they doing the work that’s asked? Again, I’m commenting on the behavior. And that might change how I interact with the student as a teacher, right? I might feel or even as a parent, I might feel frustrated. I might feel annoyed. That would often then be internalized by a student, right? They’re on the receiving end. So they’re hearing these comments like, you know, why are you working or why are you so messy or how did you forget that? I just gave the instructions. What happens is the student then internalizes that and they start to build an identity around that and they might think, Oh wow, something is wrong with me or am I stupid? And they start to develop this learn helplessness in a way where they might not even want to attempt the work because they’re so used to feeling overwhelmed by it. All this is to say the behaviors that we’re seeing is really a lagging skill. So just to go back to those examples, a student with their head down, they might feel super overwhelmed or they might not understand the directions and they’re too embarrassed to ask for it to be explained. So rather than be the only one in the classroom that doesn’t know what to do, they’re just going to put their head down because that might even look a little less obvious or simply just because they’re drained and they’re exhausted or a student that struggles with their working memory might quite literally not remember what was being asked. And so they feel embarrassed or silly. And so a teacher, I think this, this, this trust going back to the point you added is so important because if a student trust that the teacher understands this behavior is not intentional, I don’t want to be defiant. I don’t want to be rude. I just don’t really understand what to do. I don’t remember the directions. I don’t understand the word and the question. It can really change the way, you know, the student’s learning trajectory unfolds.

ADAM:  Randall, what exactly is executive functioning and why is it so critical to a child’s success both in and out of the classroom?

RANDALL:  Great question. Executive functioning is the brain’s self-management system and it does skills like organization, managing your time, understanding how to plan and prioritize and also emotional regulation. These are skills essentially in the simplest way I think about it is it’s how we decide what task we want to accomplish and then how we’re actually going to accomplish that task. And so if you think about these skills for students in a classroom, if you struggle with your memory or your attention, it’s really difficult to understand what’s expected of you and also learn and remember what you’re learning and therefore how you perform is going to be impacted. The smartest child can really struggle to succeed if they struggle with their executive functioning. So again, just some other examples if you think about in the classroom, you know, attention is one of the biggest parts and one of the biggest components of executive functioning. And if you struggle with attention, it’s really easy to miss content that’s being delivered, directions that’s being asked of you. And therefore what a student actually, but they’re able to show in terms of their learning, whether it’s in homework, on a quiz, on a test, in a discussion, they often will struggle with that because they were struggling with attention. But then also you see this outside the classroom in the home, they’re struggling to get the homework done because they’re not managing their time properly and they’re on video games instead of doing the reading. Also, you know, maybe their room is a mess and you’re thinking, why are they so disorganized and really it’s just maybe an executive functioning skill that they’re struggling with.

ADAM:  And anxiety is a big part of this conversation, isn’t it? Because if a person is feeling anxious, their executive functioning is impaired?

RANDALL:  Absolutely. I’m glad you mentioned that because that goes back to what I said earlier about that whole child approach, thinking about students’ social and emotional, where they are socially and emotionally. So a student that has anxiety, their brain might be so focused about things outside the classroom or even in the classroom that they’re worrying about. And if you think of a brain focusing on something outside the classroom, what they have to do later, that anxiety is quite literally closing the brain off to be able to take in new information. And so if you’re worrying about what you do after school or what you’re wearing or what you are going to eat for lunch or what your friends are saying about you, it’s really difficult to take in new information and actually hold onto it. And so that’s where working memory comes in as well, right? If we’re really anxious and someone’s talking to us, the chances are we’re not really listening or able to take in what they’re saying and that can cause more anxiety. So it’s kind of this cycle, if you will. So it’s really important to think about that as well.

ADAM:  Why am I missing what that person is saying? I only got 10% of what they just told me and you’re missing more and more.

RANDALL:  And then something that is another piece of this is the social anxiety that comes around peers and in the classroom thinking about you’re always, you’re not always, but often as you get older, especially you start to compare ourselves to peers in the classroom. And so if you see students, oh, wait, they’re already on the second page and I’m still on question number two. I think that that happened to me, if I’m being honest, I’m thinking about me as a kid. I always remember in math, I was a slow processor and math didn’t come so naturally to me and I would see we’d have these quizzes and I’d see students racing through and they were almost done. And I was still on question three and my anxiety was so palpable that I almost forgot the steps I needed to even get the math done.

ANNOUNCER:  And that happens so often with students.

ADAM:  How do executive functioning challenges show up in everyday life and how might that be mistaken for something else? You may have touched on this a little bit already, but if there’s anything you want to

RANDALL:  add. When children are demonstrating things that seem like lack of motivation or lethargy or defiance, we as educators, as parents, as adults might assume that this is intentional, this is a choice and in actuality, students really want to do well. Kids want to impress their parents. They want to impress their peers. And so I think really understanding that the behaviors we’re seeing are not a choice. It’s really something under the surface is going on that quote unquote laziness might really be overwhelmed. There are so many steps to this essay. I don’t even know how to start. I don’t want to start, right? Or this question is so dense and I don’t even understand some of the words in the question. So I’m just going to put my head down because that feels a little easier. So I think a lot of it is wanting to really get curious. And I’m going to talk about this a little bit more hopefully later on because I think curiosity could be one of the most instrumental tools adults can use to really get at the core of what’s going on.

ADAM:  Do you want to just go there right now?

RANDALL:  It is the name of this podcast. Yes. Oh my God. I love that. That’s such a full circle moment. It’s so true. So yeah, I mean, one of the things I always talk about when I give professional developments to teachers or when I speak with parents, encouraging them to get curious about the behaviors they’re seeing and also being intentional about the questions they’re asking. So instead of just saying and feeling frustrated, why didn’t you do your homework? How did you forget to bring in your cleats for soccer practice? I don’t know. I’m thinking of different examples, right? And stop and saying, what’s your process? How are you going to remember to bring all this stuff tomorrow? Or I notice it’s hard to remember where to put your homework. How are you going to organize that? What’s your system? Do you have one? Is it working? Should we come up with a different system and getting super curious? First of all, even just as I say it, it relieves the tension of pointing a finger versus let’s figure this out together. And so coming from a place of curiosity also in the classroom as an educator, right? Why did you only write one sentence when we said to write three paragraphs or why are you running around the room? You should be in your seat. Do you need a brain break? Is your brain a little exhausted? Do you need movement? And really asking what’s going on, it opens the doors to such amazing conversations. And then students really understanding more about themselves, which to me is the end goal.

ADAM:  So you just said it. This is all about understanding. And I want to ask, why do you think learning differences are still so misunderstood even today?

RANDALL:  It’s a really important question. I think one of the biggest things is a lot of learning disabilities are invisible to the eye. And so, for example, going back to executive functioning, these skills we talked about, our memory, our attention, our ability to manage time and organize, they’re not necessarily things that you see and you understand. They’re behaviors that are going on inside in the brain and how we’re understanding what we’re learning and then showing what we’re learning. And so all we see are behaviors. We don’t see what’s going on inside the brain. And everyone, including the two of us sitting here, we both learn differently. I, for example, am a very visual learner and some adults that I work with, they love to read everything. And so I think by and large, we tend to equate intelligence with performance. And really, it’s about understanding everyone can learn. It’s just how do they learn? How do they access the information? And then how do they share what they understand? And I think this kind of cycle, if you will, which I mentioned earlier, right? There is a learning disability. The student is there for struggling in some aspects because of a lagging skill that they really need strategies and support for. And then shows up as a behavior in the classroom, which then can lead to a response from an adult or a teacher, which then can be internalized by the student and the cycle repeats.

ADAM:  You told me something in our previous conversations that has been in my head since you told me, which is instead of asking how smart are you, instead ask, how are you smart? And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about that.

RANDALL:  Thank you for bringing that up. Because I think again, it goes to the art of questioning and something as simple as shifting the way you ask students or children rather, how are they smart versus how smart are they? It changes the understanding that being smart is one dimensional and that intelligence is fixed. And you and I both know there’s multiple means of intelligence. There’s so many different ways to be smart. And I would argue that academics, I’m worried to say this because I don’t want to get backlash in saying this. It’s super important, of course, but I really believe the other skills, the soft skills, the executive functioning, the social emotional skills, these are the skills that really help you in the real world long term. When you’re a parent that potentially asks, how did you do in that test? You’re looking often for an answer of a grade, right? I got an A or I got an 87. And then the conversation becomes about that versus how did you get there? Why, why do you think you did so? You didn’t do as well as you wanted or what would you do different next time? Because maybe the way you studied, you know, maybe you reread your notes over and over and that’s not really how your brain remembers things. Maybe you need to make flashcards. Maybe we need to make pictures. Maybe we need to think of acronyms. And this is where strategies come in and are so important because they allow students to show their stroke of genius, if you will, in another ways. Another part of that is, you know, how are you smart opens? Even when I say it, I’m thinking of all these different ways I can answer that versus just thinking of smart in the sense of academics and performance and grades.

ADAM:  It just shifts the whole perspective in school. There’s different classes that the smart kid class and when I was in school, they used to call it the dumb kid class. And it’s just tiered in such a way that kids are primed to look for an answer to the question of, am I smart or not? And when you present it the way you did, which I think is brilliant, it forces the individual to find the way in which they are smart. It’s just a given that they are smart, but we have to figure out in what way.

RANDALL:  Yes. I love how you said it’s a given that they are smart. That’s the biggest thing I would hope that shifts in education and in just the way students think about learning and about themselves. Every one is smart in some way. And if you think about it, that’s what makes the world go round. As an attorney, there’s a certain level of skills that you need to be successful in that role that maybe I don’t have, but I have a different skill set that helps me work with students in a certain way. Skills transcend the content, if you will. I think it’s so, so important for educators and parents and anyone really interacting with kids to ask the question in ways that expand their minds and their thinking and get them excited. I’m really good at making kids laugh. My strength is my social skills and oh my God, how important is that? In today’s day and age, that might even surpass some of the other skills that when we were growing up felt the most important, like wrote memory and things of that nature.

ADAM:  I want to underscore that point because if you have someone who’s brilliant and they get into the work world and they’re struggling with anxiety or depression or the like, that could sabotage or interfere with all of their brilliance. Whereas if you have an individual who is resilient, they’re going to figure out how to do the job in some form or fashion. I’m not worried about that person.

RANDALL:  Yes. I’m smiling because you are speaking my language so perfectly in the sense of that these, again, I’m going to say soft skills, if you will, or the skills are not necessarily content academic based, such as having resilience or grit or skills that transcend the classroom and childhood. And we need them for lifelong learning.

ADAM:  Your use of soft is interesting and I’ve always heard it characterize that way and maybe we need to shift how we refer to those things because the things we’re calling soft are actually kind of hard.

RANDALL:  You’re giving me food for thought because actually I really, I think I might shift how I do say it because you’re right. Not only are they hard, but they’re hard in the sense of they’re the most used skills. We need them every day to do everything.

ADAM:  If we’re trying to foster collaboration and shape individuals who know how to work with other people to get things done, being a brilliant individual is not really going to facilitate that, but having the social and emotional abilities to work as a team with other people will.

RANDALL:  Absolutely.

ADAM:  While we were brainstorming about this episode, you mentioned using creative outlets like Lego and improv. Can you explain how these help children build executive functioning skills?

RANDALL:  Absolutely. And I’m really glad that we’re talking about this because these skills that we’re talking about are not necessarily at the forefront of how students are learning today. Thinking about ways to integrate learning these skills where it’s a little bit more low stakes and students want to engage is super transformative. So for example, these executive functioning skills we talked about, if you, one of the things that we do at PALS, we have a group called Lego Lands and it’s something that we’ve brought to other schools such as Game Room. And it’s really taking these things that are more low stakes and fun in thinking about how we’re using these hard skills, address it. So if you think about Legos, right, you have to plan, what are we going to build? What are we going to make? You have to be flexible. Oh my God, I can’t find this certain piece. What am I going to do now? Am I going to stop the whole thing? We can see a lot of kids want to just throw a tantrum of the thing breaks and maybe they build this whole Lego set. And now they’re missing a piece and suddenly they have a tantrum. Well, that’s something that we can work on, but it’s in a little bit more of a fun, low stakes way. So teaching them grit and problem solving and being flexible. Oh, you don’t have this one piece. What can we use instead? Or working together as a group also, maybe one student is building a piece of the Lego, whatever it’s meant to be, right? They’re building one piece of it while another student’s working on something else and teaching them how to collaborate and ask questions. Oh, I feel like you’re stuck with that. Do you need, you know, you need to borrow this? So a lot of the skills like problem solving being flexible can be done through these more creative outlets that students will probably be a little bit more receptive to improv to me. I mean, talk about a full circle moment. You know, I as you are aware, but I don’t know if the listeners know I have a background in entertainment and in comedy specifically. And what I love about that is it’s giving students the opportunity to learn how to have fun with their communication and be spontaneous in their thinking and also have to regulate their emotions and really listen and take turns, but in a fun way where it’s relaxed and we’re not stressed. And you mentioned earlier, if you’re an anxious or you’re depressed or something of that nature where you’re struggling socially, emotionally, it’s really hard to work on these, these skills. If you’re in an environment where that’s the name of the game, right? Yes. And you might have said something wrong, but it’s okay. Let’s keep going with it. Or you have to wait your turn. You know, we’re playing this game. It’s not quite your turn yet. And you accidentally speak. That’s okay. How do we roll with it? These are the things that you need anything that helps students work on these skills where it’s engaging is what will transform and I think last have them last longer.

ANNOUNCER:  If you like what you are hearing, please let us know by subscribing to our podcast and letting others know about it too. If you have thoughts, questions, comments or would like to suggest ideas for a future episode, we’d love to hear it. So email your feedback to podcast at Dayanlawfirm.com.

ADAM:  What are some simple practical strategies you recommend for families or educators to start using right away?

RANDALL:  So some practical strategies that families or educators can use right away. One of the first things I always say, one of the simplest things is really using visuals and checklists. And the reason that’s super helpful is it’s targeting multiple skills. So when you have a checklist or helping students organize possibly an order of steps that they need to accomplish, you’re also building that muscle memory of, okay, this is what I could do first. And then I can’t forget to do this and you can actually check it off. So this can look like something such as a morning routine. And I mentioned the visuals because that depends on the student’s age or how they learn or how they’ll remember. So for example, having a checklist like waking up and brushing your teeth, putting even the toothbrush and the toothpaste away. I mean, it might need to be broken down that specifically, getting dressed, not just packing your bag, but maybe even what goes into the bag, putting your folder as a way, putting your sneakers and gym clothes in the backpack. So if you have a checklist, it really helps build routines and it helps students remember what they have to do every single day. And what I love about it, and I find this as an adult because I still am using checklist, is there’s a sense of accomplishment. When you get to check it off or you feel like you did it, you’re like, oh, great, okay, I’m done. So checklist and visuals are one of the simplest ways to start. Another strategy that you can use right away and it kind of has to go with checklist. I just started to mention it is breaking tasks down. This goes back to the art of questioning. So instead of saying, did you clean your room? That can mean so many different things. It’s seen in the world. Sometimes that starts an argument because you’re like, yes, you did. And the parent might walk in and say, wait a minute, what? There’s clothes everywhere. Well, to them, they clean the room because maybe they put just their sneakers. And the right spot. So breaking tasks down, what do you really mean by that? And again, it kind of is synonymous with checklist, but break it and make it simple. Again, so did you clean your room? Are your shirts back in the drawers dirty clothes or in the hamper? Are your school belongings on the desk? So break it down and make it really straightforward. It’s, it’s easier to help students understand what’s expected. Where kids rather keep saying students, the teacher and me. So, so checklist, breaking things down. Another thing, and I feel like this could be a fun thing for parents, practicing time estimation. This is huge. We didn’t touch on it too much, but time management is one of the most, I say, very difficult skill in executive functioning. And it’s something that I think we struggle with from kids all the way to adulthood. Something that you can do to make it a little bit more fun is you can ask your child to question like, you know, how long do you think it’s going to take us for us to cook dinner tonight? How long do you think it’s going to take me to cook dinner tonight? Don’t even put it on them, right? Or I have to clean up and you have to clean up. How long do we think it’s going to take? And so when you start to ask questions about simple things, you’re starting to build students awareness of how long things really take. And so building that self awareness of time is huge. And I just want to say that’s super important if you think about it for completing work, because a lot of students avoid getting started with homework or studying because they in their mind, they estimate, oh, this is going to take me hours. I don’t even want to do it. And then you sit with them and it takes them five minutes and they’re like, oh my God, why did I put that off or the opposite? They think it’s going to take me five minutes. I’ll get it done quickly. And then it’s hours. And then you’re like, oh my God, why are you working until midnight? Because the time estimation was off. So building questions around timing in low stakes way is huge.

ADAM:  Maybe I have some executive functioning stuff or maybe these strategies are just helpful for all people. But in adulthood, you have things, let’s say a huge project that you’re working on and these skills become hugely important to be able to break it down into components. And especially if you’re trying to meet deadlines saying specifically as you articulated, what is going to happen by when? And if it’s amorphous, then you’re not going to be able to measure progress. But if you can successfully break it down in the way you’re describing, then you can actually track. Did the thing that I said was going to get done, actually get done?

RANDALL:  Exactly. Exactly. As someone who does this for a living and knows it’s inside and out, it’s something I still work on in terms of managing my time and breaking down tasks. Sometimes for example, I’m creating a professional development and in my mind, oh my God, that’s so lofty. Where do I even start? So if I can kind of break it down in terms of what I want to accomplish and I can appropriately estimate how long it’ll take, it really first of all, it eases my anxiety, which is huge, right? And it also makes me feel like I’m making progress towards that end goal. And that’s what we talked about is executive functioning, right? Deciding the goal and figuring out how to get there. So I’m really glad that you mentioned that. And the time estimation is so key because often as adults, and again, I’m speaking to myself, sometimes I use time blocking, which is a strategy, you know, we could talk about where you’re setting a specific amount of time and making, not just how long, but when, right? So I’m not going to say I’m going to work on it for an hour. I’m going to work on it from 10 to 11. That’s what time blocking is. It’s a really helpful strategy. And what I find myself noticing is sometimes I don’t give myself enough time. And then I don’t get it done because I only give myself an hour. And then I realize, oh, wow, now I know that this task actually does take me two hours. So when I’m doing it next time, I’m actually going to give myself two hours instead of an hour. I’m thinking about my thinking and understanding how I operate. And that goes back to what I said in the beginning of the podcast, empowering children and empowering adults to understand how they learn and what they need to be successful.

ADAM:  Yeah, I think also giving ourselves some grace that doesn’t necessarily have to be done completely or perfectly the first time. If you said you’re going to spend 60 minutes on a task and you spent the 60 minutes, but it didn’t get done, great. You worked on it for an hour and now you can block out another hour.

RANDALL:  Absolutely. So, so happy you said that because that is so crucial. That goes back again and everything we’re saying keeps coming full circle because that’s what this is. It goes back to almost the failure bow of it all. We’re reframing again the mindset shift of instead of being hard on yourself using it as a way to understand how you operate.

ADAM:  I love this. These are great strategies. You can start helping our kids work these muscles from a young age. Are there any other strategies you want to mention?

RANDALL:  I want to mention you already said normalizing mistakes as part of the process, which is really big and that is a strategy. It really is. It’s normalizing mistakes and making them super okay and really learning points. But I’m going to go back to the art of questioning and coming from a place of curiosity. If there’s one takeaway and one strategy and you feel maybe overwhelmed, I don’t know how to make a checklist or how do I break this down. If you simply just think about getting more curious when you see behaviors that you might feel are not serving your child well and you start to ask more questions, that is the biggest transformative way that you can change students in understanding themselves and build these executive functioning skills that are so important.

ADAM:  And you often talk about the ABC approach. Can you break that down for us and share how it works in real life?

RANDALL:  Okay, ABC. Let’s keep it simple. So that is a strategy in and of itself. A to me is awareness. The first step in anything that we’re doing is having an awareness of where we’re at with whatever it is we’re working on, whether it’s a student or an adult. So really becoming aware of perhaps your stocks. Where am I with this learning task or this project? Where are my strengths also? And by the way, I want to highlight that. Don’t think I talked about enough the importance of strength based conversations and not always being about what’s not working and really highlighting what’s working because that’s huge. So recognize awareness, having an awareness and always that goes back to getting curious awareness of their process, awareness of your stocks, awareness of your strengths. So having an awareness, then the B is kind of going back to breaking things down. Simplifying tasks into concrete steps is one of the easiest or I would say the most best way to really help a student digest what’s expected of them and remember it. Breaking things down. Again, I gave the example earlier with cleaning your room or getting ready for dinner. What does that really look like? It means washing your hands. It means putting your homework away, breaking things down. And then if you think about it, I’m going back to being a middle school teacher and essay. So daunting. Let’s break those steps down. What are all the steps you need to do? We need a topic. We need to collect evidence. We need to understand how to write a paragraph. So just breaking steps down is super helpful and important. And then the C, so the awareness piece breaking things down how these is being consistent. The reason this is so important is our brain brain loves consistency. It loves automaticity. Our brain loves not have to think about things. We do things automatically. It’s the best. So, you know, you’re not thinking about how you’re brushing your teeth. It’s just a it’s just a habit. You’re forming the way we form new habits is through consistently doing certain tasks. And so if you’re reminding your child consistently to do something, maybe every Sunday you’re having a conversation about what went really well for you this week or what’s something you want to do differently going into next week and you consistently are having those conversations, that’s where the transference happens. And that’s where you’re forming new habits. So becoming aware, breaking things down and consistently working with your child to build these routines is what can truly shift and build their executive functioning skills.

ADAM:  We may have touched on this a little bit earlier. How do social and emotional needs tie into academic performance and self-esteem?

RANDALL:  We spoke briefly on this and I think it’s super important even to talk about it more and highlight how the social emotional needs tie into academic performance because they’re truly inseparable in my in my mind. But really if you think about it, the way that we show up as adults, but go back and start with students in the classroom. If we are really stressed about a fight that we had with our parents or our friends or we can even go back to basic needs, we’re hungry, we’re tired, we didn’t get enough sleep. Our brain is going to really struggle to learn new material and new content because our brain is preoccupied with all these other things going on and our emotions are charged.

ADAM:  I just think of halt. I know we’ve spoken about some acronyms. I don’t know if you are familiar with that one. Hungry, angry, lonely, tired. If you’re feeling one of those things, you may be dysregulated and may not be able to focus.

RANDALL:  We really need to prioritize the social and emotional well-being of students because that sets the foundation for learning.

ADAM:  Can you speak to the tension many parents feel worrying about academic success when their child may be struggling emotionally or socially?

RANDALL:  Yes, that’s a super valid concern and I never want to minimize what it’s like to be a parent and worry about that because we are a son of a day in age where things like your grades do matter and how you perform it does matter. It goes back to thinking about effort over outcome. When you can prioritize getting curious with your child about the process and the effort they’re putting into something and I don’t want to say effort and get it confused with like, are you trying hard? But how are you doing this? The process. What can change the tension or the worry because you’re starting to understand your child and how they learn?

ADAM:  You and I have spoken about when academic success is built on shame. I’m a fan of Brene Brown. She talks a lot about shame. Can you discuss how that fits in here?

RANDALL:  I love that you brought that out. I’m a big fan as well. If you don’t know, we probably both highly recommend listening to some of that. Just the thought of even that word makes me almost clench up and feel a little tightness in my chest and it’s the opposite of what we want to encourage, which is building confidence. That’s how you want to try new things. That’s how you want to learn. If we keep highlighting strengths over struggles, we’re truly wiring students’ brains to think about the things they’re doing well and not just what they’re not doing well. I learned this actually later on in life and it’s something I’m still working on and it’s thinking of, I tend to be a warrior myself. I could be anxious myself. I’ve learned strategies instead of always thinking, what’s not going well? What can I be doing better? What is going well? How can I leverage what’s going well into other aspects of my life? Highlighting strengths over struggles is a really great way to build confidence and minimize shame that students might feel when it comes to how they learn or how they perform.

ADAM:  What I’ll put, you’ve said your work is about helping students become masters of their own minds. What does that look like in practice?

RANDALL:  This to me is the number one takeaway that I would want to encourage educators, parents, and even if a student or a child or a young adult is listening. The best thing that you can do for yourself is understand how your brain works and understand how you learn and understand how you think. When you know yourself in that way, firstly, it’s really hard to feel shame because you realize, oh, but that’s just how my brain works. I don’t have to be embarrassed about it. Personally, I don’t have a great memory. If I were to get mad at myself every time I forgot, it would just cause a shame spiral and I would even be nervous to talk to people. But instead, if I can think of, oh, okay, well, I know that I don’t have a great memory. What can I do differently? Maybe when I talk to someone, I have to visualize what they’re telling me because that’s a strategy to help me remember. Okay, cool. Now, moving forward, I’m going to really try and use that. I’m going to really visualize and it really helps me. Maybe visualizing doesn’t work and I think of acronyms, right? That was what I said earlier. Now I’m forgetting what the question was. Is that not? Wait, is that not perfect? That was right on cue. That was almost planned. That was planned. This is what I’m seeing. Pointing, right? But here we go. I’m laughing at it, right? I’m not sitting here. Oh my God, I’m so embarrassed. I can’t believe it. I’m going, wait, that’s how I am.

ADAM:  It’s perfect. And I credit you so much for the ease with which you say I’m not so good at X. Why is that so hard for us to say sometimes? And we get stuck on that part. Oh, no, I’m not good at this thing. Whereas if we embraced, okay, I’m not so good at this thing, we can shift and start to think about how can I leverage my strengths to be better at this thing that I’m not so great at.

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ADAM:  I was just reading progress reports for one of my kids and it comes as no surprise knowing myself and knowing my wife that my child is a high achiever who also wants to do things perfectly, avoid mistakes, and gets overwhelmed in certain scenarios. And I think what you’re saying right now is so important and I want to take it a little bit further just in terms of modeling it for our kids. And some of us are great at this. We’ve learned to accept mistakes and take risks and some of us adults are still working on that and some of us adults haven’t started working on it at all and it can feel very daunting. Can you talk a little bit more or give another example about how to model for our kids these skills that are so important to being a functional thriving adult?

RANDALL:  Yes, I am really glad that you’re circling back to this because like you mentioned, it is something that as a society, there is different levels to which we feel comfortable admitting our flaws, our faults, our struggles, and it is something and I’m sure everyone listening can think of that one person who can never admit they were wrong or the person who’s always making jokes and kind of laughing at themselves. Going back to your question about how to model that, it thinks so much of it is sharing out loud your thought process.

ADAM:  What’s the difference between tutoring and coaching and how does coaching help students across all subjects rather than focusing on just one academic area?

RANDALL:  The way that I distinguish it is tutoring often can focus on subjects specific so it’s like getting a tutor for math to help you with that content and I personally, and this goes back to the first question you asked about, my philosophy is really whole child holistic and recognizing that if we’re only tutoring in one subject, we’re not really getting to the root of how the student learns. Why is that subject hard? What is it about math? Is it because there’s multiple steps? And so coaching to me is, first of all, the connotation feels light and happy and if you think about kids, a lot of kids have coaches for sports teams or for singing and there is this feeling of, okay, they’re in my corner, they might push me a little bit, they might be hard on me, but I trust them, going back to the trust and so maybe I’ll listen to what they have to say. So the first thing I should actually have said is the connotation of coaching to me feels a little bit more receptive and easier and engaging. If a student doesn’t want to engage, we’ve lost it, right? It’s really hard to move the needle. Coaching again looks at how a student, how a student approaches learning. I said, how twice intentionally it’s the process. It’s how are we learning? It’s all those executive functioning skills I said, planning, prioritizing, managing your emotions. This holistic approach is something that will transcend any academic subject. Training thinks about the process and giving specific strategies for how we’re learning versus just the content of what it is that we’re trying to understand.

ADAM:  What kinds of conversations should parents be having with their child’s educators to better support learning?

RANDALL:  So the conversations that parents could have with their educators I think goes back again to thinking about equating intelligence with performance and shifting away from that a little bit more. And again, I’m keep highlighting the process and what we’re observing. And so asking questions like, what do you notice when my child is learning well? Where do they tend to get stuck? It’s not about the content. It’s the experience of learning. It’s not about the product. It’s not about what they’re producing. It’s how are they getting there? How are they understanding what they’re learning and showing it? If your child really struggles with writing, but they’re we’re going to say they’re brilliant, right? They have a mind. They understand their analytical, they’re critical. How does the teacher know, you know, if they’re only assessing them by their writing, how do they know what they really understand? Is there another way they’re assessing their child learning? Is there other opportunities they can give your child to show what they’re learning? Can they verbally explain it? Can they do something more creative because that’s where they really shine? So you might even give educators opportunities to think of different ways that they can assess their students understanding and also more importantly, instruct their students.

ADAM:  Along the same lines, I love what you’ve said about how parents can ask better questions to get to the heart of what their child is experiencing. How do you get a sense of what happened in your child’s school day? Most of us will say how is school and we don’t get very much in response. What are some more nuanced questions that parents can be asking to get a better understanding of their child’s day?

RANDALL:  When you ask questions like how was school, we’re giving our child the opportunity to just give a one word answer. It was good. It was bad. I don’t know, right? Again, their memory is not that great or they don’t really want to share because they’re embarrassed. So instead of asking these really kind of, I would say open-ended questions about just how was school, being a little bit more directive and saying something like, what was something that was tricky today? Or did you have any classes? Did they teach anything that was really confusing? I think the more questions that you ask that require them to be reflective and actually think about their day and the more pointed you can meet the question, the more likely you’ll get a more detailed response.

ADAM:  What are some ways parents can help their children become more independent and confident learners?

RANDALL:  There’s many different ways that you can help your child. I think the first thing I always say, and to me, I think it’s one of the simplest things, but it’s giving choices. This is not just parents, it’s educators as well, thinking about giving them specific choices so it’s not super overwhelming, but it helps contextualize and give them options to think about, is helpful. I think another really important thing is we talk about RIT, I said earlier, in perseverance. Having that is so important and I see this happen all the time. It’s hard to let our kids struggle. It’s whether you’re a teacher, whether you’re a parent, whether you know, I have my niece, I love, very, very close with and I watch. Sometimes I watch her struggle and it’s giving just enough. So the wiggle room to figure things out, you know, you don’t want the necessarily to get to meltdown mode. That being said, a little bit of struggle is important. If you’re quick to jump in and problem solve for them, they’re never going to have the opportunity to figure out for themselves. And that is a skill that they need forever. So it’s really important to kind of find that sweet spot.

ADAM:  How can teachers begin to integrate executive functioning and social emotional learning into their classrooms without it feeling like one more thing?

RANDALL:  This is something that I do as often as I can when I get the opportunity to give professional development because I’ve been an educator and a teacher for so many years that whenever I felt like someone was asking me to do more, it was almost like, okay, you have no idea how much I’m doing. I have, you know, hundreds of students and they all learn differently. Now you’re asking me to do something else. And so I’m super intentional about making sure that educators understand that it’s not doing more. It’s just how you’re doing it. And it goes back to those little tweaks and it goes back to the art of questioning. And it also goes back to being explicit. So certain things like previewing steps before a task and talking out loud about what is our plan and giving students time to make the plan. And then the other thing I just want to mention and again, I think this might be the most important part because I talked about how empowering students to understand how they learn best is so important. So having reflective questions in the start or the end of class. And this is this build something we call an executive functioning metacognition, which is a fancy term for thinking about your thinking and being reflective. And sometimes teachers will say, I don’t have time to ask, make all these questions. And I say, keep it really simple in general. Maybe you’re ending the day with what’s one thing that you really enjoy learning today? What was one thing that was difficult about learning today or the process? What did you enjoy doing? What did you have find that was challenging? So then you’re actually making them have to think about the day. What did I struggle with? And so embedding these really quick and I’m talking like the bells about to ring. We only have two minutes. Everyone here’s a post it. Go around the room and just write down one thing you really enjoyed. Even that is making them have to think. And then similarly, if you can start the session with an open ended question, getting them to reflect about how they’re learning. So it goes back to not doing more. It’s just how you’re doing it.

ADAM:  Randall, it feels like we’ve come a long way since we connected probably around the decade ago, you’ve shined a light on the importance of executive functioning and social emotional learning. You are helping parents shape more resilient and gritty children. And I know that this conversation is going to be enormously helpful to lots of parents out there and educators who are trying to learn how can they do better. And thank you so much.

RANDALL:  Thank you so much for having me. It was an absolute pleasure and I really appreciate it.

ADAM:  Same here. It’s been a pleasure.

ANNOUNCER:  Thanks for listening to Curious Incident, a podcast for special needs families. Don’t forget to subscribe for a new episode every month. For more resources and helpful information, check out our website and blog at dayanlawfirm.com. This podcast provides general information which is not intended to and does not constitute legal advice. You should not rely on this information for any purpose. For legal counsel, you should consult with an attorney to discuss your specific circumstances. You’re listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship between you and the law offices of Adam Dayan, PLLC. No attorney-client relationship is established unless a retainer agreement has been executed between the clients and the law offices of Adam Dayon. This podcast may constitute attorney advertising. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Many guests featured or resources mentioned on this podcast are for information purposes and are not endorsed by the law offices of Adam Dayan, PLLC.